Talk:Murimîresûri
Haerangil, do you have the Shadow World version of the Mithisars? The Jerek...I forgot the other part of the name. If not and it is all speculation, then wouldn't Mormiresul be apart of the Mithisars. Seems likely. Moran half valar (talk) 20:01, May 26, 2015 (UTC) :The Jerak Arenreth? They were an organasition that planned to destroy the eyes of Utha to enable the free flow of the essence, quite different from their predecessors fom Mithrisars.Ondoval,Churk Ta, Schrek, Lorgalis, A’kesh, Darí Holvir, Oan Lyak, Shanarak,Zagul and Iaen Shiin were members. As for Mormiresul... I´m not even f ully convinced that she was evil... she killed Utumkodur or at least was instrumental in her death, but Utumkod ur was a dragon of Angband and a Tyrant of the Womaw, she aslo maybe introduced Sauron to Khamul, but Sauron at the time ws still Annatar. I´ve read different accou nts on her, some seem to treat her as an evil Elf, others seem to state that she was no fallen Elf at all but acted in good intention. Given the fact that eastern history was written by the Womaw who were a dark realm for a long time and that we already have so many fallen elves I´d prefer to treat her not as a fallen Elf but as a simple Avar ruler who was maybe misled and misinformed, but not fallen to evil.--Haerangil (talk) 07:29, May 27, 2015 (UTC) That sounds like a perfect description. Thank you so much Haerangil. That was exactly what I needed! Moran half valar (talk) 17:13, May 27, 2015 (UTC) Also, where can I find the The Jerak Arenreth? What Shadow World book are they in? Moran half valar (talk) 17:15, May 27, 2015 (UTC) :I have a document called "Rolemaster Master-Timeline"... plus they are frequently mentioned in various books, but ICE just gives us splinters.--Haerangil (talk) 14:17, May 28, 2015 (UTC) So no stats in other words? Moran half valar (talk) 23:14, May 28, 2015 (UTC) :I´, sure there must be RM stats for Ondoval Loralis and some others, but since I don't use Rolemaster I don't have em.Haerangil (talk) 09:42, May 29, 2015 (UTC) In that case could you give me a hypothetical list of the Twelve Mithisars, on who you think them to be. They don't have to have stats, I can create those. Moran half valar (talk) 00:04, May 30, 2015 (UTC) Thanks Haerangil, I appreciate your help, I know I get annoying but it is for good reason. I am creating my own system that has some similarities to ICE/MERP. :well we have upo and Priclis.I´d also add Lorgalis and Ondoval. Makes four.If you add Churk Ta, Schrek, A’kesh, Darí Holvir, Oan Lyak, Shanarak,Zagul and Iaen Shiin you have twelve names.--Haerangil (talk) 06:16, May 30, 2015 (UTC) Alright, sounds good, if you know the books, I probably have them--I just need to look them up. You don't know which book their stats would be in? Moran half valar (talk) 18:51, May 30, 2015 (UTC) :Sorry man! I don#t have any RM Sourcebooks beside Loremaster. I have sevral of the companions, but there are not stats for the Jerak in them.www.sden.org/IMG/pdf/Master_Timeline.pdf --Haerangil (talk) 12:29, May 31, 2015 (UTC) :Ondoval and Lorgalis are Althans (Seer and Mystic),Schrek is an Althan Mentalist, A'kesh is possibly a Loari Essence Alchemist , Shanarak a Dyar Elf Magician, Darí Holvir/Iaen Shiin is a Linaeri Monk/Assassin, Zagul a Dyari Astrologer, Oan Lyak a Dyari Mystic, Zagul a Dyari Astrologer, Voriig Kye is a Dragonlord, I don#t know what Churk'Ta is...--Haerangil (talk) 13:52, May 31, 2015 (UTC) http://www.icewebring.com/articles-and-indexes/shadow-world-characters/ Hey if we are saying Utumkodur is the unnamed dragon that survived the War of Wrath and that she is evil, doesn't that defunct this character? I mean how would her background change? Moran half valar (talk) 22:44, September 27, 2017 (UTC) : Well it was clear right from the start that the entire concept of a "good Dragon" doesn't work in a Tolkienian Universe. So ICE were obviously wrong at this or in other words, what the Womaw/Avaradan thought and told about Utumkodur was terribly flawed.But Men of the East would believe such lies and think of Utumkodur as Good and of Mormiresul and Dardarian as Evil- of which i#m also not convinced.--Haerangil (talk) 13:46, October 3, 2017 (UTC)--Haerangil (talk) 13:46, October 3, 2017 (UTC) The only thing I don't like though, is that you listed her as a Fallen Elf, if she is not evil, why is she listed here? I am just going by your history and your works on this wiki. Moran half valar (talk) 17:03, April 22, 2018 (UTC) The only thing I don't like though, is that you listed her as a Fallen Elf, if she is not evil, why is she listed here? I am just going by your history and your works on this wiki. She is also allied to that evil half elf that is Ringil's father. Moran half valar (talk) 17:04, April 22, 2018 (UTC) : Yes it´s a tricky thing with these early MERP/RM Characters... i´d leave the possibility open that they started off as good, but eventually fell at a later point, though I am not sure if they fell to morgoth or maybe became corrupted otherwise.--Haerangil (talk) 13:33, May 16, 2018 (UTC) Well hopefully I fixed the error. I edited her bio and said that she was ORIGINALLY allies with Ringlin's father, but defected. Moran half valar (talk) 15:17, May 16, 2018 (UTC) Location Says she is in central middle earth in categories, but I see other articles that she is near Helcarth with a bunch of other Avari Queens. Which is it? If she is over there, then I cannot use her for the Destruction of the Entwives battle. Moran half valar (talk) 01:47, November 29, 2018 (UTC) :well, Helkanen is VERY central still. That's where she is.I've always been sceptical of using Cuivienen characters such as Morwe, Nurwe etc. For Rhun and the Brown lands...--Haerangil (talk) 03:22, November 29, 2018 (UTC) I took Morwe and Nurwe out, should I leave Mormiresul in the Destruction of the Entwives or take her out? Cause the whole point was to have Utumkodur killed there and that was the reason the dragons went to burn that place, cause of her since she is the mother of all dragons. I thought her death and Mormiresul's inclusion would be good, but if you don't want me to use her, then I'll take her out. Moran half valar (talk) 03:50, November 29, 2018 (UTC) :i don't think it is a good idea to connect the destruction of the entwives gardens with Mormiresuls killing of Utumkodur.--Haerangil (talk) 04:20, November 29, 2018 (UTC)